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	Comments on: Open Gaming Licenses: Past, Present, and Future	</title>
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	<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/</link>
	<description>The Furious Scribblings of Chris Pramas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:04:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: TFVanguard		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TFVanguard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Change and adapt&quot; isn&#039;t really the issue here.  For many designers, including &#039;fandom&#039; designers, the issue is &quot;can we even do this AT ALL?&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4E looks to be more and more restricted. I certainly can&#039;t do &#039;Spychanger City&#039; under it. It seems unlikely that I can&#039;t do any other of my setting material (such as Pulps, or Materia Arms) either. In fact, it looks like that if I&#039;m not making &#039;generic adventure module #252&#039;, then I cannot use 4E, period.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And even if I AM making such a module, WotC gets to tell me what I can and can&#039;t do with it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This isn&#039;t an issue of the MECHANICS of 4E, but of how the license is approached. For many small-time contributors, the likes of which are all over rpgnow.com and the like, 4E really doesn&#039;t seem to make any sense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Change and adapt&#8221; isn&#8217;t really the issue here.  For many designers, including &#8216;fandom&#8217; designers, the issue is &#8220;can we even do this AT ALL?&#8221;</p>
<p>4E looks to be more and more restricted. I certainly can&#8217;t do &#8216;Spychanger City&#8217; under it. It seems unlikely that I can&#8217;t do any other of my setting material (such as Pulps, or Materia Arms) either. In fact, it looks like that if I&#8217;m not making &#8216;generic adventure module #252&#8217;, then I cannot use 4E, period.</p>
<p>And even if I AM making such a module, WotC gets to tell me what I can and can&#8217;t do with it.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t an issue of the MECHANICS of 4E, but of how the license is approached. For many small-time contributors, the likes of which are all over rpgnow.com and the like, 4E really doesn&#8217;t seem to make any sense.</p>
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		<title>
		By: KeeneLARP		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-562</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KeeneLARP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-562</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Orion- I understand the merits of SRD and OGL. I appreciate their existence in the sense that it does allow people a chance to realize their desires. Like I said, I was just making crass statements on the subject. This is only because I am criticizing the end results in a lot of cases. I actually prefer the analogy used about the keys to the car and crashing. Kudos to Some Old Guy for that one!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am only hoping that 4E &lt;i&gt;perhaps&lt;/i&gt; makes a more interesting car from the start, and will hopefully push people away from creating endless &quot;dungeons&quot; and instead cultivate an environment where the game is either reinvented, or rehashed entirely.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;An example is Greg Stolze&#039;s &quot;REIGN, a game that resparked my interest in fantasy settings. I&#039;d like to see more developments in that vein than I would another campaign world. Of course, this is all what I would want, and I know this is not what everyone else wants, but it&#039;s all I know sadly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cheers to anyone though that does try. I will, in the end, appreciate that effort.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Orion- I understand the merits of SRD and OGL. I appreciate their existence in the sense that it does allow people a chance to realize their desires. Like I said, I was just making crass statements on the subject. This is only because I am criticizing the end results in a lot of cases. I actually prefer the analogy used about the keys to the car and crashing. Kudos to Some Old Guy for that one!</p>
<p>I am only hoping that 4E <i>perhaps</i> makes a more interesting car from the start, and will hopefully push people away from creating endless &#8220;dungeons&#8221; and instead cultivate an environment where the game is either reinvented, or rehashed entirely.</p>
<p>An example is Greg Stolze&#8217;s &#8220;REIGN, a game that resparked my interest in fantasy settings. I&#8217;d like to see more developments in that vein than I would another campaign world. Of course, this is all what I would want, and I know this is not what everyone else wants, but it&#8217;s all I know sadly.</p>
<p>Cheers to anyone though that does try. I will, in the end, appreciate that effort.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-561</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-561</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[wow...people really are freaking about 4th Edition. I guess that&#039;s how it was when 2nd become 3rd and 3rd became 3.5. I never cease to be amazed by people&#039;s inability to accept change &amp; adapt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow&#8230;people really are freaking about 4th Edition. I guess that&#8217;s how it was when 2nd become 3rd and 3rd became 3.5. I never cease to be amazed by people&#8217;s inability to accept change &#038; adapt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tavis		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tavis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Hasbro&#039;s reaction to a 4E Osric, I think their handling of fan material for Heroscape is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroscape#Fan-generated_content_and_materials]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Hasbro&#8217;s reaction to a 4E Osric, I think their handling of fan material for Heroscape is interesting: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroscape#Fan-generated_content_and_materials" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroscape#Fan-generated_content_and_materials</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Some Old Guy		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-559</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Some Old Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-559</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gamer Dude - you are indeed not off base. In fact, there are quite a few folks currently doing exactly that - using the OGL to craft games that take the good from 3.x, chuck the bad, and add some improvements.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In my own campaigns with 3.x, we ditched Challenge ratings on sight, got rid of Staggered at zero HP, ignored Flat-Footed AC, and simplified the combat sequence among dozens of other changes. Some of the things that are happening to 4e are the result of feedback from folks who made these mods long ago. Effectively, some groups are already playing at least some parts of what will be 4e.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WotC&#039;s original intent is backfiring - rather than unifying the gaming world under one set of rules, they gave the world the keys to the car. Some have driven the car into the wall, while others have gone the distance. Now, WotC realizes they&#039;ve pretty much given away the core of D&amp;D;, so they&#039;re changing the design of their car and starting a new racing league with new regulations so that they can get back on top again.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;However, there are enough competitors around (amateur and pro) with enough spare parts and ingenuity to support their own racing series without any input from or control by WotC at all. So, expect some folks to put on challenging road races with finely tuned machines and others to do little more than paint smiley faces on their demolition derby cars.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WotC now knows that while they have the muscle to attract players with brand identity and pretty paint jobs, the underlying structure of the system is no longer theirs to control. The cat is out of the bag. Some will buy their products for look and feel alone, but the audience is critical and would rather drive something that&#039;s fast and reliable over something that&#039;s overpriced and flashy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How&#039;s that for pushing the analogy envelope? :)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your notion of 3.99e is already a reality in some groups and will grow in popularity even (and maybe especially) after 4e is released.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gamer Dude &#8211; you are indeed not off base. In fact, there are quite a few folks currently doing exactly that &#8211; using the OGL to craft games that take the good from 3.x, chuck the bad, and add some improvements.</p>
<p>In my own campaigns with 3.x, we ditched Challenge ratings on sight, got rid of Staggered at zero HP, ignored Flat-Footed AC, and simplified the combat sequence among dozens of other changes. Some of the things that are happening to 4e are the result of feedback from folks who made these mods long ago. Effectively, some groups are already playing at least some parts of what will be 4e.</p>
<p>WotC&#8217;s original intent is backfiring &#8211; rather than unifying the gaming world under one set of rules, they gave the world the keys to the car. Some have driven the car into the wall, while others have gone the distance. Now, WotC realizes they&#8217;ve pretty much given away the core of D&#038;D;, so they&#8217;re changing the design of their car and starting a new racing league with new regulations so that they can get back on top again.</p>
<p>However, there are enough competitors around (amateur and pro) with enough spare parts and ingenuity to support their own racing series without any input from or control by WotC at all. So, expect some folks to put on challenging road races with finely tuned machines and others to do little more than paint smiley faces on their demolition derby cars.</p>
<p>WotC now knows that while they have the muscle to attract players with brand identity and pretty paint jobs, the underlying structure of the system is no longer theirs to control. The cat is out of the bag. Some will buy their products for look and feel alone, but the audience is critical and would rather drive something that&#8217;s fast and reliable over something that&#8217;s overpriced and flashy.</p>
<p>How&#8217;s that for pushing the analogy envelope? 🙂</p>
<p>Your notion of 3.99e is already a reality in some groups and will grow in popularity even (and maybe especially) after 4e is released.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Prosfilaes		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prosfilaes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quillion, why would you expect Hasbro to sue anyone who tried to OSRIC the current edition? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First place, even with deep pockets, judges don&#039;t like frivolous lawsuits designed to use the legal system as a weapon against the plaintiff&#039;s competitors; such actions can backfire hard.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Secondly, lawsuits aren&#039;t cheap. Even if you have deep pockets, you&#039;ve got to pay attention to whether it would be worth what it&#039;s going to cost you to get rid of a very minor competitor. And really, GURPS gets ten times as many google hits as OSRIC, and only three out of the first 20 hits are for OSRIC the RPG. I doubt OSRIC even comes up on the radar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirdly, T$R is still remembered as such. If WotC/Hasbro starts suing companies without good cause, you&#039;re going to turn off part of your core audience.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quillion, why would you expect Hasbro to sue anyone who tried to OSRIC the current edition? </p>
<p>First place, even with deep pockets, judges don&#8217;t like frivolous lawsuits designed to use the legal system as a weapon against the plaintiff&#8217;s competitors; such actions can backfire hard.</p>
<p>Secondly, lawsuits aren&#8217;t cheap. Even if you have deep pockets, you&#8217;ve got to pay attention to whether it would be worth what it&#8217;s going to cost you to get rid of a very minor competitor. And really, GURPS gets ten times as many google hits as OSRIC, and only three out of the first 20 hits are for OSRIC the RPG. I doubt OSRIC even comes up on the radar.</p>
<p>Thirdly, T$R is still remembered as such. If WotC/Hasbro starts suing companies without good cause, you&#8217;re going to turn off part of your core audience.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gamer Dude		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gamer Dude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m neither a game industry pundit or lawyer but one thing that&#039;s occurred to me is that w/ the current OGL, what&#039;s to keep someone from creating a mirror of 4e after it&#039;s been released? Seems to me that someone could easily create a 3.99e (see Monte Cook&#039;s new &quot;Book of Experimental Might&quot; as an example.) and while not exactly copying the 4e rules, they could quite easily emulate them. Couldn&#039;t they?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It just seems to me that WotC sort of opened Pandora&#039;s Box when they released the OGL / SRD. I&#039;m not familiar w/ how a company protects its IP, but in the day and age of open source it&#039;s an increasingly difficult issue to cover under current law.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I dunno...maybe I&#039;m way off base here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m neither a game industry pundit or lawyer but one thing that&#8217;s occurred to me is that w/ the current OGL, what&#8217;s to keep someone from creating a mirror of 4e after it&#8217;s been released? Seems to me that someone could easily create a 3.99e (see Monte Cook&#8217;s new &#8220;Book of Experimental Might&#8221; as an example.) and while not exactly copying the 4e rules, they could quite easily emulate them. Couldn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>It just seems to me that WotC sort of opened Pandora&#8217;s Box when they released the OGL / SRD. I&#8217;m not familiar w/ how a company protects its IP, but in the day and age of open source it&#8217;s an increasingly difficult issue to cover under current law.</p>
<p>I dunno&#8230;maybe I&#8217;m way off base here.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg Gordon mentioned 1 important benefit of allowing 3rd party 4E products, cultivating freelancers.  But an even bigger one IMO is the necessity to get as many players as possible to make the leap from 3.5 to 4E, and that will be made much harder if the entire 3rd party gaming industry is locked out of creating 4E content, but still has 3.5 and the OGL available to them.  Together, all those publishers could swamp WotC in content produced each month, and make it far more viable for players to remain with 3.5.  Since several of those 3rd party companies, including GR, can rival WotC for quality of content, splitting the RPG community like that should be a real fear for WotC.  If all or the vast majority of publishers stop publishing 3.5 and switch to 4E, I think many more players will too, since D&amp;D; 3.5 will no longer be getting new support.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg Gordon mentioned 1 important benefit of allowing 3rd party 4E products, cultivating freelancers.  But an even bigger one IMO is the necessity to get as many players as possible to make the leap from 3.5 to 4E, and that will be made much harder if the entire 3rd party gaming industry is locked out of creating 4E content, but still has 3.5 and the OGL available to them.  Together, all those publishers could swamp WotC in content produced each month, and make it far more viable for players to remain with 3.5.  Since several of those 3rd party companies, including GR, can rival WotC for quality of content, splitting the RPG community like that should be a real fear for WotC.  If all or the vast majority of publishers stop publishing 3.5 and switch to 4E, I think many more players will too, since D&#038;D; 3.5 will no longer be getting new support.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-555</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 07:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-555</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey Greg,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WotC has indeed benefited from the training provided by 3rd party companies. If you look at the folks working on 4E, many of them previously wrote books for Green Ronin. That&#039;s not just freelancers, but many current staffers as well. I think Dragon and Dungeon used to fill the role of farm system, but now that they have gone digital I&#039;m not sure  that&#039;ll continue to be the case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Greg,</p>
<p>WotC has indeed benefited from the training provided by 3rd party companies. If you look at the folks working on 4E, many of them previously wrote books for Green Ronin. That&#8217;s not just freelancers, but many current staffers as well. I think Dragon and Dungeon used to fill the role of farm system, but now that they have gone digital I&#8217;m not sure  that&#8217;ll continue to be the case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: hida-jiremi		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/02/02/open-gaming-licenses-past-present-and-future/#comment-554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hida-jiremi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=178#comment-554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I for one sincerely hope that Paizo doesn&#039;t sign on to the 4th Edition bandwagon. My local play group dislikes almost everything they&#039;ve heard about 4E, and we think it would be a terrible shame to face a future with no new OGL/3.5E products.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even if 4E were more palatable, a lot of the attitude copped by the 4E designers over the last few months is a little off-putting, a distinct tone that this game is only for &lt;i&gt;cool kids&lt;/i&gt;, which does not necessarily include us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one sincerely hope that Paizo doesn&#8217;t sign on to the 4th Edition bandwagon. My local play group dislikes almost everything they&#8217;ve heard about 4E, and we think it would be a terrible shame to face a future with no new OGL/3.5E products.</p>
<p>Even if 4E were more palatable, a lot of the attitude copped by the 4E designers over the last few months is a little off-putting, a distinct tone that this game is only for <i>cool kids</i>, which does not necessarily include us.</p>
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