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	Comments on: Debating the OGL	</title>
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	<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/</link>
	<description>The Furious Scribblings of Chris Pramas</description>
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		<title>
		By: JR		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have to wonder if it would be possible to quantify another sort of &quot;safety net&quot; -- those who would have left the D&amp;D;/D20 gaming system, if there hadn&#039;t been OGL and D20 variants out there in other genres they were interested in trying.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I mean, back when I started playing games 25 years ago, if you wanted to play a superhero game you played Champions or Villains and Vigilantes, both with completely different mechanics than D&amp;D.; If you wanted to play a space game, you played Traveller. Even TSR&#039;s own games used completely different systems than D&amp;D; (Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Star Frontiers, etc.) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, a person wanting to try a spy game is likely to play a D&amp;D;/D20 variant (Spycraft) or a superhero game (M&amp;M;) or a space game (Star Wars or T20, I guess.) It seems to have further cemented D&amp;D;&#039;s role as the central source of all key gaming concepts. I suspect it is the default now, more than it ever was before. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have friends who have gamed for 7-8 years now, who are seriously spooked by the idea of playing a game that doesn&#039;t have STR/DEX/CON, classes, feats and rolling high to beat a target number as key mechanics. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After I had been playing for eight years, I probably had tried 15 entirely different gaming systems. They have played one, some variants of that one and aren&#039;t that interested in trying anything else.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to wonder if it would be possible to quantify another sort of &#8220;safety net&#8221; &#8212; those who would have left the D&#038;D;/D20 gaming system, if there hadn&#8217;t been OGL and D20 variants out there in other genres they were interested in trying.</p>
<p>I mean, back when I started playing games 25 years ago, if you wanted to play a superhero game you played Champions or Villains and Vigilantes, both with completely different mechanics than D&#038;D.; If you wanted to play a space game, you played Traveller. Even TSR&#8217;s own games used completely different systems than D&#038;D; (Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Star Frontiers, etc.) </p>
<p>Now, a person wanting to try a spy game is likely to play a D&#038;D;/D20 variant (Spycraft) or a superhero game (M&#038;M;) or a space game (Star Wars or T20, I guess.) It seems to have further cemented D&#038;D;&#8217;s role as the central source of all key gaming concepts. I suspect it is the default now, more than it ever was before. </p>
<p>I have friends who have gamed for 7-8 years now, who are seriously spooked by the idea of playing a game that doesn&#8217;t have STR/DEX/CON, classes, feats and rolling high to beat a target number as key mechanics. </p>
<p>After I had been playing for eight years, I probably had tried 15 entirely different gaming systems. They have played one, some variants of that one and aren&#8217;t that interested in trying anything else.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Matt Sheridan		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-472</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Sheridan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-472</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good point from Charles, there.  I&#039;d hate to see WotC fall into the kind of antagonistic relationship TSR had with its own fans towards the end.  Man, remember when people were calling them &quot;T$R&quot; on bulletin boards and the early Internet?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thankfully, though, I think that&#039;s a bit unlikely.  Without an OGL or similar setting the boundaries on the new D&amp;D;, it&#039;s certainly a &lt;i&gt;possibility&lt;/i&gt;, but I think the cultures involved have grown up enough that it&#039;s a little unlikely.  These days, even huge companies are learning that trying to dictate what customers do on the Internet is a losing battle and PR poison.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Really hope I&#039;m not just being optimistic, here...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point from Charles, there.  I&#8217;d hate to see WotC fall into the kind of antagonistic relationship TSR had with its own fans towards the end.  Man, remember when people were calling them &#8220;T$R&#8221; on bulletin boards and the early Internet?</p>
<p>Thankfully, though, I think that&#8217;s a bit unlikely.  Without an OGL or similar setting the boundaries on the new D&#038;D;, it&#8217;s certainly a <i>possibility</i>, but I think the cultures involved have grown up enough that it&#8217;s a little unlikely.  These days, even huge companies are learning that trying to dictate what customers do on the Internet is a losing battle and PR poison.</p>
<p>Really hope I&#8217;m not just being optimistic, here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-471</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-471</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi, Chris--&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Really great analysis. I&#039;m sure it will get picked to pieces on EN World as well . . .&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just yesterday, I found myself discussing the OGL in a professional capacity and having to answer some questions about the open gaming concept (my PR person is going on maternity leave and I was explaining D&amp;D; to her replacement). As we talked about the history of D&amp;D; and how the open gaming paradigm compared to how TSR dealt with 3rd parties, yet another advantage of the OGL struck me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is an inexorable desire on the part of third parties to create D&amp;D-compatible; material. Whether it&#039;s fans or companies, there will always, &lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt; be people who try to publish (if only on their web site) material for D&amp;D.;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The OGL and d20STL created a transparent framework that allowed this without any interaction with WotC. All WotC had to do was create the license, update a few materials periodically, keep an ear to the ground for serious violations (which often were pointed out by other third-party publishers), and very rarely slap someone down. The system pretty much ran itself.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a closed system, the rules become murky (&quot;is it OK for me to do &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; on my website?&quot;), incidents of trademark misuse probably increase, WotC isn&#039;t aided by a body of third-party publishers with an interest in the system, and the need increases to protect non-open trademarks more vigorously.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In short, though running the OGL may seem like a legal hassle (setting it up sure must be), in the long run it may be much easier for WotC to retain an open system than to police a closed one.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&#039;ve pointed out quite cogently that the evidence is scant that the OGL was a significant benefit to D&amp;D.; Equally, the jury is out as to whether it was a detriment. Given that balance, it may actually be easier for WotC to stick with a system that has worked for eight years rather than return to a paradigm that in the past often pitted D&amp;D;&#039;s owners against the game&#039;s community.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;--Charles]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Chris&#8211;</p>
<p>Really great analysis. I&#8217;m sure it will get picked to pieces on EN World as well . . .</p>
<p>Just yesterday, I found myself discussing the OGL in a professional capacity and having to answer some questions about the open gaming concept (my PR person is going on maternity leave and I was explaining D&#038;D; to her replacement). As we talked about the history of D&#038;D; and how the open gaming paradigm compared to how TSR dealt with 3rd parties, yet another advantage of the OGL struck me.</p>
<p>There is an inexorable desire on the part of third parties to create D&#038;D-compatible; material. Whether it&#8217;s fans or companies, there will always, <i>always</i> be people who try to publish (if only on their web site) material for D&#038;D.;</p>
<p>The OGL and d20STL created a transparent framework that allowed this without any interaction with WotC. All WotC had to do was create the license, update a few materials periodically, keep an ear to the ground for serious violations (which often were pointed out by other third-party publishers), and very rarely slap someone down. The system pretty much ran itself.</p>
<p>In a closed system, the rules become murky (&#8220;is it OK for me to do <i>this</i> on my website?&#8221;), incidents of trademark misuse probably increase, WotC isn&#8217;t aided by a body of third-party publishers with an interest in the system, and the need increases to protect non-open trademarks more vigorously.</p>
<p>In short, though running the OGL may seem like a legal hassle (setting it up sure must be), in the long run it may be much easier for WotC to retain an open system than to police a closed one.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve pointed out quite cogently that the evidence is scant that the OGL was a significant benefit to D&#038;D.; Equally, the jury is out as to whether it was a detriment. Given that balance, it may actually be easier for WotC to stick with a system that has worked for eight years rather than return to a paradigm that in the past often pitted D&#038;D;&#8217;s owners against the game&#8217;s community.</p>
<p>&#8211;Charles</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rob L.		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-470</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-470</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nobody&#039;s going to read your &#039;blog, Chris, if you&#039;re going to be so rational and logical. Where&#039;s the screaming hyperbole?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody&#8217;s going to read your &#8216;blog, Chris, if you&#8217;re going to be so rational and logical. Where&#8217;s the screaming hyperbole?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-469</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-469</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think you are rather missing the point, Nick. I&#039;m not saying, &quot;Ooh, look at how many books GR sold.&quot; I&#039;m saying I know how many books GR sold because it&#039;s my business and that gives me an idea what other d20 companies were selling during the height of the d20 boom. You&#039;re right, no individual GR book could go toe to toe with a WotC book. My point was that taken together the third party companies sold a number of books that was surely quite significant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are rather missing the point, Nick. I&#8217;m not saying, &#8220;Ooh, look at how many books GR sold.&#8221; I&#8217;m saying I know how many books GR sold because it&#8217;s my business and that gives me an idea what other d20 companies were selling during the height of the d20 boom. You&#8217;re right, no individual GR book could go toe to toe with a WotC book. My point was that taken together the third party companies sold a number of books that was surely quite significant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[With 250k PHBs in circulation &lt;i&gt;at launch&lt;/i&gt; I suspect that the simple answer to all of this is that 3rd party publishers really made next to no difference to WotC at all, either in driving PHB/core book sales or in taking players away from subseqent books.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don&#039;t know what the average print run of a GR book is or what the top selling one has been but I can&#039;t imagine that most of this was even a blip. My experience is that most people who were buying lots of 3rd party stuff were obsessives like me who also bought lots of WotC stuff.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The sort of arguments listed above by Chris are pretty self important IMO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With 250k PHBs in circulation <i>at launch</i> I suspect that the simple answer to all of this is that 3rd party publishers really made next to no difference to WotC at all, either in driving PHB/core book sales or in taking players away from subseqent books.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the average print run of a GR book is or what the top selling one has been but I can&#8217;t imagine that most of this was even a blip. My experience is that most people who were buying lots of 3rd party stuff were obsessives like me who also bought lots of WotC stuff.</p>
<p>The sort of arguments listed above by Chris are pretty self important IMO.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That was the best analysis I&#039;ve seen on the subject.  Thanks for the post.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ed Wetterman&lt;br /&gt;12 to Midnight]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was the best analysis I&#8217;ve seen on the subject.  Thanks for the post.</p>
<p>Ed Wetterman<br />12 to Midnight</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, I don&#039;t think Wotc likely benefited much at all. I purchased the PHB, MM, &amp; DMG for the game--because I was playing it. But, they lost their revenue on all other Wotc books (the splatbooks) from me because I thought 3rd-party products were more interesting. Most of my money thereafter went to Green Ronin, Goodman Games, Atlas Games, etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;ve since purchased Wotc&#039;s other Monster Manuals, but none of the Complete books. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So, IMHO, they would be better off closing it--or limiting to a few partners and taking a percentage from them. And it doesn&#039;t bother me one bit if they do close it. I&#039;m not interested in it, and they can&#039;t shut down the OGL.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christina]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t think Wotc likely benefited much at all. I purchased the PHB, MM, &#038; DMG for the game&#8211;because I was playing it. But, they lost their revenue on all other Wotc books (the splatbooks) from me because I thought 3rd-party products were more interesting. Most of my money thereafter went to Green Ronin, Goodman Games, Atlas Games, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve since purchased Wotc&#8217;s other Monster Manuals, but none of the Complete books. </p>
<p>So, IMHO, they would be better off closing it&#8211;or limiting to a few partners and taking a percentage from them. And it doesn&#8217;t bother me one bit if they do close it. I&#8217;m not interested in it, and they can&#8217;t shut down the OGL.</p>
<p>Christina</p>
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		<title>
		By: Matt Sheridan		</title>
		<link>http://www.chrispramas.com/2008/03/31/debating-the-ogl/#comment-465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Sheridan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrispramas.com/?p=156#comment-465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good points, raising interesting questions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can say with absolute certainty that &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; am one of those folks who stuck with D&amp;D;/d20 a lot longer than I otherwise would have due to the huge and varied profusion of third party content.  But I really don&#039;t know if I&#039;ve given &lt;i&gt;Wizards of the Coast&lt;/i&gt; more money than I would have without the OGL.  Honestly, I&#039;ve given Green Ronin a lot more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still, I think the OGL has had a few other positive effects (from WotC&#039;s perspective) that are worth thinking about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) The arena of third party d20 development is a proving ground for new, D&amp;D-compatible; ideas in mechanics and game theory.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) The experiments of third-party d20 developers and the RPG community&#039;s reactions to them demonstrate the current zeitgeist and whims of D&amp;D;&#039;s audience.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) A larger and more varied world of d20 development helps the system (in all its many forms) gain and retain mindshare.  I honestly don&#039;t think I&#039;d be particularly interested in D&amp;D; 4e if I&#039;d just played 3e, gotten tired of D&amp;D;&#039;s specific fantasy subgenre, and moved on to something else.  It&#039;s the vast world of third party and homebrew d20 development out there that really sold me on the system, and makes me eager to get ahold of more raw material.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does all this mean the OGL is more useful than detrimental to WotC&#039;s bottom line?  I have no idea.  But they&#039;re factors worth thinking about, and I hope WotC is aware of them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, raising interesting questions.</p>
<p>I can say with absolute certainty that <i>I</i> am one of those folks who stuck with D&#038;D;/d20 a lot longer than I otherwise would have due to the huge and varied profusion of third party content.  But I really don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;ve given <i>Wizards of the Coast</i> more money than I would have without the OGL.  Honestly, I&#8217;ve given Green Ronin a lot more.</p>
<p>Still, I think the OGL has had a few other positive effects (from WotC&#8217;s perspective) that are worth thinking about.</p>
<p>1) The arena of third party d20 development is a proving ground for new, D&#038;D-compatible; ideas in mechanics and game theory.</p>
<p>2) The experiments of third-party d20 developers and the RPG community&#8217;s reactions to them demonstrate the current zeitgeist and whims of D&#038;D;&#8217;s audience.</p>
<p>3) A larger and more varied world of d20 development helps the system (in all its many forms) gain and retain mindshare.  I honestly don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d be particularly interested in D&#038;D; 4e if I&#8217;d just played 3e, gotten tired of D&#038;D;&#8217;s specific fantasy subgenre, and moved on to something else.  It&#8217;s the vast world of third party and homebrew d20 development out there that really sold me on the system, and makes me eager to get ahold of more raw material.</p>
<p>Does all this mean the OGL is more useful than detrimental to WotC&#8217;s bottom line?  I have no idea.  But they&#8217;re factors worth thinking about, and I hope WotC is aware of them.</p>
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