Another element that's emerging as a big 4E sales driver is the revamped and much improved RPGA system. It has been re-designed more towards casual play, the quality amped up, and the venues widened. We went from no RPGA play in-store, after disappointment with the old system, to 15-20 people every week, and growing.

Meanwhile, our stock of D&D; 3.5 books, many of which are new, are languishing on our shelves at half price. As a product, 3.5 is dead for us and Pathfinder has dwindled down to insignificance as 3.5 PF games end and new 4E games begin.

With the current state of the GSL, that comment is nothing but scathing mockery.

I think WotC saw how much money was made via the OGL by the 3rd Party market that they wanted to trim the license so that they could harvest a bit more of it…while still supporting the 3rd Party Market.

I mean, the 3rd Party guys also drive up interest in the core products, so that works in their favor.

I think part of this is the economy and every company is trying to get every last mile out of their dollar. I understand that. I understand WotC's need to be profitable: they have bills to pay, utilities, facilities, freelancers, overhead, lots of mouths to feed.

I wonder if the annual "christmas time" layoffs (and WotC is hardly the only company doing this) are a matter of lowering overhead on paper so at the end of the year it looks like they are more profitable (on paper) to the shareholders, etc.

As far as 4E, liking it or not…really…I hope it succeeds. I have no 4E hate going on. I've always thought "version wars" were stupid anyhow.

My thoughts on that is that D&D; is THE BIG NAME in RPGs, and as it goes, to a greater or lesser degree so does the rest of the industry. I want D&D; to succeed because I want the RPG industry to succeed.

Like many others, it's my bread and butter too.

Without the OGL we wouldn't have the best superhero game ever made, M&M.;

I don't like to see people lose their jobs. But I want the 4E decision to bite WotC in the butt like a great white shark. It wasn't needed and the GSL is a nightmare.

I have a thought here, they have culled the companies who were deadly serious and produced extremly high qulaity Rpg products (Green Ronin, Necormancer Games, White Wolf, etc.)

Those that are, goodman games for example seem to be producing it under the OGL (as I recall that is what your current product is using, I could be wrong).

It could be suggested that the people who are producing 4E products under the GSL have a lover level of quality, and that OGL products have gained. I can only think of two High quality 4E products (Open Design’s Wrath of the River King and Expeditious Retreat’s Advanced Player’s Manual)

I wonder how many folks did not move over because a fan favorite products like Pathfinder, freeport or midnight did not convert to 4E. I know I am one and you can add my 8 players to that list as well

One thing I can’t help but think is that, as good as 4e might be, 3e didn’t beg for an update nearly as badly as 2e did (something I recall WotC copping to, in fact). So while 3e brought people back to D&D; in droves, 4e is competing with a still-viable edition of D&D;. (And then, of course, there’s the theoretical waiting-for-4.5 crowd. But I don’t expect that’s a very common position.)

Anyway, I believe 4e has the potential to bring in hordes of non-3e players, if it gets the right marketing push. Have there been TV commercials for it? I saw a rather expensive-looking Magic: The Gathering ad running in a movie theater, recently. Surely 4e warrants similar treatment, right? If there isn’t any mainstream marketing for 4e at the moment, I’d bet money that WotC is waiting until they’ve finally got their digital component sorted out. Once that character visualizer and virtual tabletop are up and running, that’s the time to start poaching the MMORPG crowd.

To followup what you said, I one of my LGS' sold quite a number of core books at launch, and then picked up several of the followup books that have yet to move from the shelves. Personally I've been sticking with Pathfinder, and while I picked up the book there is not really a big demand for it here.